Techmology Bits
2 Apr
We here at Keystone offer our clients SEO services. SEO stands for Search Engine Optimization, and it’s the process of helping your website communicate your business and your keywords to the search engines. There are a host of companies out there making outlandish promises regarding search engines, and they con a lot of people out of their money.
From time to time, we get an email or a phone call from one of these companies, and I gamely play along. I act stupid and ignorant of SEO practices and let them give me their snake-oil salesman routine so that I can better help you–the client–steer clear of such scams.
Today I got a fun call from eLocal Listings, offering one of the shadiest SEO pitches I’ve ever received. We’ll just call the guy Bob, because I was so busy trying not to laugh that I forgot his real name. Bob started out by telling me that his company could help us land tons of new clients through search engine placement. I’ll just list the errors, omissions, and outright lies I found in what he said, and then explain why he’s wrong:
1. He didn’t do his research. The first move Bob made was to not research our site and see that we offer SEO services ourselves. So he could have saved himself some embarrassment by not trying to lie to someone who knows more about real SEO than he ever will.
2. He didn’t test his theories. Bob had done just enough research to know that Keystone offers Network Administration services (helping clients with their office computer networks) and that we were located in Hendersonville, TN. So Bob asked me to go to Yahoo and search for “network integration hendersonville, tn” so I could see that we don’t rank well for that keyword phrase. Problem is… we do. We’re number one, in fact (because I do my job, and do it fairly well, and also because there simply aren’t a lot of “network integration” companies in the small town of Hendersonville, TN).
I pointed out to Bob that we were already #1 for that term, and it was the first of many times to come where he was a bit speechless. “Well, you’ve got that one organically, don’t you?” Yes, Bob. Yes we do. Any other brilliant sales pitch techniques you want to run by me?
Bob’s solution to this sales roadblock was to say “Well, what if you search for ‘web development hendersonville, tn’?” I ran that query and as Bob started to point out how we didn’t rank for that, I interrupted him to say that “Well, we’re not number 1, but we’re on that first page… 8th down the list.”
So Bob clearly didn’t run these queries before calling me. He was just banking on the fact that he’d be right, and we wouldn’t rank at all. Eventually he found a phrase we didn’t rank for, and seemed to feel some pride about it. Good for you, Bob.
3. He used Yahoo for his examples. Bob, if you really knew about SEO, you’d know that Google is the dominant player, with over 60% market share, and that Yahoo is a VERY distant second. It should be noted that I really could care less how well or poorly I rank on Yahoo. But Bob was basing his entire pitch on a search engine that only has 17% of the search market at best.
4. He made vague boasts about his services. Bob said, “We have a special relationship with Google and Yahoo, because of the fine work that we do–in fact, both companies are considering buying us. Google’s been to our offices and we’ve been to theirs. Because of this special relationship, we can submit your keywords to them directly instead of going through the normal channels.” Ugh. So, I’ll deal with this more in a moment… for now, just know that no SEO has a special arrangement with Google or Yahoo that allows them to circumvent normal SEO practices. It’s somewhere between a sneaky sales tactic and an outright lie. Oh, and just because you have been to their offices (which I doubt) doesn’t prove some secret pact with them. I’ve been to the White House, so does that mean I have a “special relationship” with President Bush?
5. He uses link farms. Bob said that in addition to submitting my keywords to Google through his special relationship with them, he would also be providing me with a one-page website about our business. And because they give these one-page sites to all their clients, he can also then promise hundreds of links would be set up to be directed at my site. Links can, indeed, be helpful for SEO. But there is a HUGE difference between links that occur naturally and links that are part of giant spammy link networks. The former is helpful, the latter can get your site banned from search engines altogether.
6. He lied to me. Bob said they had Google’s logo on their site, and had it because of their “special relationship.” He told him which page on their site had the logo, and I saw
a little button that says “We follow Google’s Webmaster Guidelines.” And there’s a small graphic with Google-colored circles in it. But it wasn’t Google’s “logo.”
Bob went on and on about how hard it is to get Google to let you use their logo, so that MUST mean eLocal is legitimate.
Whatever, Bob. That’s not the real Google logo. Besides, I can right-click and “save as” on any graphic I find online, and then post that graphic on my website… it doesn’t prove anything.
Bob’s real lie, however, is in that button’s claim that eLocal Listings “follows Google’s Webmaster Guidelines.” No, Bob, you don’t. See, I clicked that button, and it took me to this page on Google’s site, listing some of their qualifications on what makes someone a good or bad SEO. There are three key passages on this page that I want to highlight to you, where Google takes the time to warn you about shady SEO people. Here’s the first one:
Be wary of SEO firms and web consultants or agencies that send you email out of the blue.
Amazingly, we get these spam emails too:
“Dear google.com,
I visited your website and noticed that you are not listed in most of the major search engines and directories…”Reserve the same skepticism for unsolicited email about search engines as you do for “burn fat at night” diet pills or requests to help transfer funds from deposed dictators.
Amen, Google. And Bob here just cold-called me to offer unsolicited SEO services. Sure, he didn’t email… he used the phone. But I think I’ll go ahead and put him in the pile with the rest of the diet pill and Viagra solicitations I get. Here’s another section I want to point out:
No one can guarantee a #1 ranking on Google.
Beware of SEOs that claim to guarantee rankings, allege a “special relationship” with Google, or advertise a “priority submit” to Google. There is no priority submit for Google. In fact, the only way to submit a site to Google directly is through our Add URL page or through the Webmaster Tools and you can do this yourself at no cost whatsoever.
Let me emphasize my favorite part… “Beware of SEOs that claim to guarantee rankings, (or) allege a ’special relationship’ with Google…” Bob… buddy. Pal. You already told me on three separate occasions during this call that your company has a special relationship with Google. Then you took me from your site to Google’s Webmaster Guidelines site that explicitly tells me to avoid people that do that. Are you trying to kill your own sale?
Okay, here’s the last part of Google’s warnings that applies:
Avoid SEOs that talk about the power of “free-for-all” links, link popularity schemes, or submitting your site to thousands of search engines. These are typically useless exercises that don’t affect your ranking in the results of the major search engines — at least, not in a way you would likely consider to be positive.
So, again, you’ve linked me to a Google page that tells me to steer clear of link schemes, after you promised your link scheme would help me rank better. Which is it, Bob? Do you want to give me a bunch of spammy links to help my rankings or have me listen to Google (who tells me the opposite)? I asked Bob directly why he was promising to use links in a way that this Google page said was bad, and do you know what he did? He changed the subject immediately, and started talking about how they can choose the best 10 keywords for me and submit them to Google. Deflection is the oldest shady sales trick in the book, people. “Hey, look over there!”
7. He told me they would pick my keywords. If I’m paying someone to rank my site better on Google, I at least want to have some input as to what keyword phrases are targeted. For instance, even if Bob had been able to show that Keystone doesn’t rank well for “network integration hendersonville, tn”, it wouldn’t have bothered me. “Network integration” is not a very common search phrase. Maybe “network administration”… definitely “office computer networks” (which we rank #1 for, by the way). But not “network integration.” If this is the kind of keyword phrases Bob was going to be able to rank me for, I have to wonder how valuable that service is.
8. He didn’t follow through. Before we hung up, I asked him to send me something in writing via email… some overview of their services so I could “sit down with my boss and talk over our options.” He agreed. Here we are, 6 hours later and I still haven’t received it. So either Bob lied and never intended to send it, or he sent it and it was caught by my spam filter. Either way, it doesn’t reflect well on him.
The list of errors could go on and on–and I’ve already written a novel here. The point is, be on the lookout for shady SEO pitches, and run from them.
For reference, here is the main launchpad page for Google’s Webmaster Guidelines. It details pretty much all the do’s and don’ts of SEO, and will help you determine if that joker on the phone has any clue what he’s talking about or not. Or… better yet… just call me when you have a shady SEO offering you unrequested services. I’ll be happy to tell you what I think–for free. And if you want to forward me any unsolicited SEO services emails, I am compiling a nice collection of these losers and would love to add yours.
26 Responses for "eLocal Listings, Don’t Hire These Guys"
This company is shady…Please learn from me do not do business with them! I am still trying to get my money back from these shady people!!!!
Well, when nearly all the results on a Google search for their business name return other pages warning against them (such as the Ripoff Report)… that should tell us something.
Sorry you’re having a bad experience with them. Good luck!
Elocal does work out well for some people, so I don’t see the point of writing a novel about them. When I signed up, they showed me various examples of customers that rank HIGH on google, and yahoo. It’s working well for me and I wouldn’t change to ANY other company (as i’ve tried them in the past) Find something better to do with your time, Buddy. Pal!
Hi “James,”
Did you type all that with a straight face?
I’m sure you’re just a happy customer eLocal Listings customer who is searching for information about eLocal Listings so you can swoop down and defend their honor. Right. And by customer I’m pretty sure you mean “employee.”
Let’s get a few facts straight:
1. eLocal Listings called US to sell SEO services to US. We didn’t call them. We didn’t ask to be scammed. It’s their problem that they called Eskimoes and tried to sell them ice.
2. If the eLocal Listings employee had any sense, he’d have known who he was calling…we’re not exactly hard to find using Google… a tool that eLocal Listings claims to be familiar with. (Note: We WOULDN’T call another SEO company to sell them SEO services. We’re smart like that.)
3. He proceeded to tell what we in the legitimate SEO business call “bald-faced lies,” all documented in the post you’re responding to.
4. We know where you’re located and you’re not fooling anyone around here. It doesn’t take a genius to figure out that the IP addresses of both your comment above and your mail server are in the same area in California where eLocal Listings is located. Coincidence? Maybe. Are you lying about who you work for? Most likely.
5. We’re not writing a novel. A novel is fiction…sort of like eLocal Listings claims. What we’re doing is reporting facts to the world so eLocal Listings doesn’t screw anyone WE know. I like typing eLocal Listings because it means that this comment will get crawled by Google and raise the rank of this post, hopefully keeping eLocal Listings from screwing anyone EVER.
If you have the guts (and I’m quite sure you don’t) why don’t you just post the URL of the your company, the company you claim eLocal Listings did such a great job for, right here in our comments section. Furthermore, tell us EXACTLY what they did that is so great. I’d LOVE to see what they did. Remember, a chimp can do pay-per-click and get any site to “rank HIGH on google and yahoo.”Around here we usually capitalize Google and Yahoo!
Also, nice attempt at getting an incoming link to eLocal Listings by posting the URL on our blog. How friggin’ stupid do you think we are?
“James,” please make sure that your telemarketing scumbags at eLocal Listings do at least a LITTLE research before making their calls and figure out whether or not they’re cold-calling a PROFESSIONAL SEO COMPANY!!!
Best Regards,
Eric Jackson
Managing Partner
Keystone Business Solutions, LLC
http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/0/261/RipOff0261634.htm
I just started a business and the same day I ran an ad in the paper I got a call from these jokers. First they started by acting as if they where a customer in need of help. Then they broke into what they where selling. He had me do several searches and all but one didn’t produce top ratings. When Sam couldn’t convince me he handed me over to his boss. I told them I don’t give out my credit card information until I research their company. So I took their name number and web address and said I would call them if I was further interested. Now that I have confirmed what I thought was true, I am not calling them back!
Thanks,
Garrett
I tried their service and was not impressed, very few calls and I found my name on pages that I would NEVER even go to - very unprofessional.
I received a couple calls in the past few weeks from this company. The man who called me today, “Kyle”, called saying he needed to speak to the owner right away, not offering his name or where he was calling from. Doing what I do, I prodded to get more information. He asked us if we were in need of “projects” before he told me where he was calling from–a clever ploy, because it meant he could’ve been from a company looking to use our services. Nope! After listening to his spiel for a minute or two, I got his information and hung up, but I’m not planning on passing it on to my boss after the researching I did. Thanks for posting this!
You are welcome.
I’m not a big fan of sales tactics that misrepresent what you do–which is what I felt they were doing. And there are a host of SEO companies out there that do the same thing. Just say what you do. SEO isn’t complicated, and the steps you need to take to rank better are pretty common knowledge.
My professional opinion would be to avoid SEO companies that are cold calling you, especially if they “prove” you need their services by having you search for yourself on any non-Google search engine.
I signed up with them for my tech service business and paid for a few months something like 159 dollars per month. Then, when after a couple of months I could not pull up my service on any search engine, I called them to complain and they said they were improving their service with some kind of video ad, which I was able to pull up when I went to an url that they gave me. THe only thing was, it would not come up in a search, so it was worthless. So I called them a few days later and they offered to reduce the cost to 129 dollars per month and optimize the search. A few days later when it still would not appear no matter what I seached for, I just cancelled the credit card. Then they had the nerve to call me and threaten me with sending it to a collection agency. Does any one know if they can legally hound me to pay for something that does not work, even if I made some kind of agreement on the phone. I would also like to be a part of a lawsuit if anyone is interested and would know how to go about starting one.
i canceled my try out and they still charged me about a week later ,i m still try’n to get my money back for the last three weeks
I recently got laid off from elocal and I can assure you after two years of being brain washed its like a breath of fresh air! The facts are: Yes we are losing most of everyone we sign up, Yes anyone can do this themselves for free, Yes we use Yahoo because we cant get you up on Google, Yes yahoo has recently rejected our listings and we are not able to get you on their anymore either, Yes the employees lie but the truth is we have these weekly meetings were we are brain washed and Todd Johnson holds money over our heads and tells us all of our hard work is going to pay off in all these stocks we own! So I can honestly say this… We were lying without even knowing it! I fell for it all hook line and sinker, this company is in debt and will be go out of business soon only to pop up as someone else a couple months later!
Wow. Well, thanks so much for sharing that insight. It’s great to have the perspective of someone who was on the inside to confirm what so many of us here have been suspecting.
Here’s hoping your next job is a better situation for you.
I am also an ex- elocal employee. I was promised an early retirement and life long financial stability.. (I know it sounded too good to be true from day one)
I was forced into staying with the thought of leaving before I sold my stocks..
I was treated poorly and even demoted while out sick. In the end, I was layed off and hospitilized for stress and anxiety. Please check rip off report.com for more employee experiences….Please dont support this company. They lie, cheat and steal.. all the while making excuses as to why they are so great.
Well, again, thanks for sharing that story. It was pretty obvious from the get go for me that the company wasn’t above board, but it’s clearly very nice to have some insider experiences to back up my hunches.
I’m sorry to hear about your experience. I hope you’ve landed in a better work environment.
Thanks for adding your story!
hI I ACTUALLY WORK AT ELOCAL AND I JUST WANT TO SAY I THINK ITS FUNNY PEOPLE WASTE THEIR TIME POSTING BAD THINGS ABOUT THE COMPANY. I LOVE MY JOB AND EVERYONE WHO WORKS HERE, I DO AS IM TOLD AND MAKE SURE MY CUSTOMERS GET THE BEST CUSTOMER SERVICE POSSIBLE. HOW CAN WE BE A SCAM IF WE OFFER A MONTH TO MONTH SERVICE? ALL YOU HAVE TO DO TO CANCEL IS GIVE US A CALL AND YOU WONT BE CHARGED ANYMORE. OF COURSE NO LARGE CORPORATION CAN MAKE 100% OF THEIR CUSTOMERS HAPPY, WE DO OUR BEST AND IM VERY HAPPY TO WORK AT ELOCAL.
Really?
Because I think it’s funny that you think a little comment on an insignificant blog like ours is going to help your company’s reputation when a simple search for your business name reveals several websites talking about how bad-and-possibly-shady your services are.
I also think it’s funny that you think screaming at us in all caps is the way to go here.
And I’m more inclined to believe the countless people I’ve read online who talk about how hard it is to cancel your month-to-month service, rather than believe you when you say canceling is easy.
But thanks for stopping by. Glad you enjoy your job, I guess. Good spin-docctoring… not.
I worked for elocal for a year!!
SCAM SCAM SCAM.
do NOT trust this company. Todd is the ring leader,
and does in fact hold false promises and money over the employees heads. The sales department, are instructed to LIE. We had weekly meetings, called THE CHURCH OF TODD to discuss loop holes, and ways to get out of giving back due monies.
Please save yourself the headache and money and DO NOT do business with them!
They just laid off half their staff, and are so, so far in debt!
They were previously: Relevant Yellow and Zone Communications.
This scam will pop up again under a 4th name!!
I have no opinion on the topic at hand I just want to say that they were never ever relevant yellow, that was a company they worked with. But yes they were zone communications.
Geez, where do i begin? I cant believe that you would exert so much time and effort in bad mouthing a company and not do the research to get some of your facts straight. I do happen to be affiliated with this company, and i can at least give you a few facts in regards to some of the issues. now first off, i find it hilarious that people think they are clever when they do `research` on the company and see listings on rip off report, but they dont bother to do research on the website that they are getting the information from. now, if you were to do a tad more investigating you would find that the founder Ed Magdenson is a fugitive from the US government for numerous counts including drug involvement. He also has several suits currently involving libel with companies that he has written false information about. Yes, this is who I want to get my facts from, give me a break. Essentially, it is a rant forum. I could go to that website, fill a report out for this company, go on and on about how i was scammed, and its not necessarily true. Dont get me wrong we cant make everyone happy, we have about 13,000 customers so its no easy feat.And another thing, we dont guarantee placement whatsoever. We do have a very high success rate in listing our clients on the first pages of the search results, and we tell them that. We do have a very good b2b relationship with yahoo and google, we are one of only twenty something companies in the world that can directly submit data to these search engines. (can your backwoods Tennessee company say the same?)
So you’re ripping me for not having done enough research on eLocal Listings and Ripoff Report before writing?
Did you even read my post?
That’s rhetorical, because it’s quite clear that you didn’t, or you would have noticed that I didn’t write this because I read some Ripoff Report and decided to summarize it.
This post was written after personal contact with eLocal. You called me. And when you called me, you weren’t prepared, you didn’t know a thing about my company or my website, you made false claims, and generally seemed like weasels. And one of the first points I made was about how your man didn’t do enough research on a website before making assumptions.
And I would love it if you would have a Google or Yahoo representative support your claim that you can submit things directly to them, since their websites and spokespeople insist that no one has that privilege. Until I can see that… then you might as well claim you guys cure cancer–it’d be just as believable.
Thanks for continuing to act in a way that only further supports our conclusions.
This company is VERY shady. They called us today too…
Tried to force us into buying their services.
We do SEO also, but they were too lazy to visit our site to see our services.
ELocallisting.com … buyer BEWARE….
If it’s too good to be true, then it’s too good to be true.
To the author of this page, keep up the good work.
Hi,
Well I fell victim to these guys yesterday. They sounded like they genuinely cared, though I thought it weird that they could not supply statistics. Anyway, when I researched them an hour or so later, I immediately called CA customer service to cancel. He emailed the re-sellers he said I spoke to in PA, and suggested I do as well. I have since emailed both CA and PA and spoken to one of the guys in PA, and no one has/can confirm this has been cancelled. I do not want to lose the hard-earned Google & Yahoo rankings we have achieved.
Any other advice??
Wow - this is by far the best post I have read on this company. Jeremy, you summarized your points so well and gave lots of pointers that most people would not take into consideration. I think you will help a lot of business owners make the proper decisions. Can anyone else please tell me what other names/companies are affiliated with them so I can watch out for myself? I know they have a few that they go by.
It took my threatening to call the California Attorney General to get my money back from eLocal Listings.
Of course, all of the recommendations you’ve made in this article make perfect sense. As small business owners, the competition can be fierce so when someone offers a solution to better exposure, we often fall victim to the ploy.
For several days with this company my organic ranking was good however, several weeks later I was on page 3. SEO requires constant tracking and as we know, the net is constantly changing.
I continue to receive weekly phone calls from similar companies…including eLocal Listings asking me to reconsider using them!!! Thanks for your valuable information.
“Dear google.com,
I visited your website and noticed that you are not listed in most of the major search engines and directories…”
LOL!!!
That is hilarious!!
Awesome post. agree 100%
I was just complaining about them on seochat before I found this post.
http://forums.seochat.com/seo-professionals-57/pros-and-cons-of-company-elocal-listing-192844.html
These elocal people are horrible.
Leave a reply